as i had just googled the web, it worries me that some of the developers are using misleading gimmicks just to get sales in!

Dear all,
do be really careful while selecting the properties that you are thinking of investing, your investment come from your hard-earn money, there's no reason you want it to be burned, but what you think may not be what the developers think, be really really careful!

the recent launching of one of the commercial development in Cheras Selatan is luring crowds but using misleading terms ( log on to www.c180-bluecheap.blogspot.com ) , really sad and worry...

I've read Kelvin's blog and he termed 'Blue Chip' as 'guaranteed returns'. But 'Blue Chip' by definition does not mean guaranteed returns. It simply means high priced or high value. So, the term used by that particular developer is justifiable as long as that particular development has either.

I visited a showroom of a luxury development sometime last year and I was given a cold shoulder treatment by one of the sales person there. It was probably because I was wearing shorts, sandals, and a round neck T-shirt while carrying a backpack. Long story short, I ended up buying a very good unit and I also recommended the development to a relative of mine who also bought two other units. But it was from a different sales person.

All I'm trying to say is, one particular sales person does not completely represent the quality of an entire organization. Although they do somewhat represent their company's image, but let's face it, there are tonnes of inexperienced sales people out there who does not know what to do when they are dealing with highly demanding, or more educated/intelligent, or perhaps just an outright difficult client. And they end up upsetting potential clients out of intimidation/fear.

I've personally met with people from that particular developer's marketing team in Solaris and I think they are a very good organization with a good plan and product.

We should be more perceptive. We shouldn't hate a product or company merely because of one or two improvable representatives.

Chen has very constructive point of view about the issues of personnel that represent the developer/development. We can choose to give way or choose to be demanding, and this is very much depending on the direction of the developer/development.

If the developer is putting "bluechip" investment in the wagon, the direct _link_ will be those bluechip shares in the stock market, i.e. TNB, Genting, YTL, IOI, Sime Darby, Telekom etc. For a developer to call his property development as bluechip, though not in the written rules, investors are definitely having certain "expectation" in returns of their investment. Else, it will be very _base_less for the developer to call themselves a "bluechip investment", which eventually, become a very misleading clause.

Something just popped up in my mind! I wonder what's the "concrete elements/fundamentals" that this developer is calling his new development as Bluechip? _base_ on location? Returns on Equity? Returns on Investment? Or just merely a marketing gimmicks? If this can't be defined well, the developer is actually putting himself on the chopping board as investors may eventually lost their confidence on the project.

Looking at all the strata-titled commercial development in town, putting aside the experience of the developer, almost none of the said properties can flourish and giving returns like what "fully-leasing mall" or "individual shops" do. The only strata-titles commercial development that has been very successful which I can think of is only Sungai Wang, but bear in mind that this is a very unique example that I believe none of the current developer can come close at this point of time. Seeing Plaza Damas by Mayland, Plaza Glomac by Glomac Berhad, Summit USJ by Meda Group, you should know what I mean.

Come back to the issue of BLUECHIP, the developer of this Cheras South Mixed Development has never been ventured into any commercial development for his past 10 years and without any supporting track records in commercial development, then, again, WHY and HOW can this be defined as a BLUECHIP investment? If someone is about to report this to Consumer Dept of Ministry of Trade Affairs, trust me, the name of the developer will be gone like the wind, bearing in mind the current situation of the economy, every single sensitive issue that may trigger another problem to your company is just unnecessary.

I've been observing this project's development since last year October. It's hard for the developer to convince me as they are merely good in using marketing gimmicks to ensure their properties can be sold. They advertised once in October in China Press that their Phase 1 was FULLY SOLD, out of sudden, the latest advertisement on April clearly mentioned that they only sold 70% of their Phase 1, so which is which? Any explanation?

Very good point Prana made about the fully sold and then suddenly 70% sold. Prana, can you proof the fully sold claim as in provide a scanned copy of China Press in October that states fully sold and compare it to the April's 70% sold. Well, I guess with that evidence, the ball would fall into the developers court to justify their own misleading action and purchasers of the following phases since October can, and in my opinion, should, take a class action law suit to seek compensation. Or bring those two publications to the Consumer Dept... that action is perfectly legal and ethical.

But I'd like to reiterate one point about using the term bluechip. It means and only means high priced or high value (can be trusted and is not likely to fail). Bluechip stocks like BRK.A and BRK.B had never given a single cent of dividend and price increase is the only return. And in real estate industry of Malaysia, chances of price increase over time is very high for most free hold and landed property. And that's very fundamental in anybody's book. So, that can easily justify the developers use of the term.

Help the public out here. If there is solid evidence, it is the our responsibility as a good citizen and consumer to prove their fault here and not just make statement without solid evidences. I look forward to seeing the China Press ad stating "fully sold" for their Phase 1. Otherwise, it is just another _base_less accusation aimed at misleading the public and damaging the reputation of a developer, and somewhat abusing this internet forum. Agree?

I guess a more proper argument would be, should the term "bluechip" be allowed to be self proclaimed, which no single entity has the right to govern given that it is after all a general term. Or perhaps a more substantial argument could be, is it justifiable to claim that particular development as "The Only Bluechip Commercial Investment in Cheras"? Which, I personally think, might be a very unfair statement to make when there are probably other good developments of commercial properties in Cheras. But then again, they have to be given a chance to justify their own actions. "As the person who speaks first in court always seems right, wait till the opponent speaks." (pardon my poor recollection of the exact quote)

Thank you Prana for bringing up Sungai Wang as the only successful strata-titled commercial development in town.
I think that's another very good point that new commercial property investors would love to know.

Dear Edward,

sorry to reply late. You can be rest assured that I have no time and have no interests to make up stories/rumors that may harm any individual/establishment. The adv was published in one of the Property Expo's Supplementary Issue in China Press, I'm asking my niece studying in Independent School to get a copy for me from their library. And, with no reason, we shall give way to a developer that can simply make up story in order to boost their sales figure, this is considered a serious offence as investors may _base_d on the perception that the development is overwhelming and this may mislead them with urgency.

Again, back to the "BLUECHIP" property investment, if follow the definition literally given by Edward, as bluechip means high price/ high value, then, in the whole context, I couldn't understand the message that the developer wants to convey to the public, "THE ONLY BLUECHIP INVESTMENT IN CHERAS SOUTH" will be interpreted as "THE HIGH PRICE INVESTMENT IN CHERAS SOUTH"??? Will that be rational for a developer to emphasize on HIGH PRICING of his properties instead of HIGH RETURNS?

Oppsss... I was told by their personnel that the service charge for this strata-titled place is RM 0.50 to RM 0.60 per sqft, or maybe the "bluechip" is relevant to this?

Pardon me for my shallow knowledge in properties, I wish to be enlightened about this.

'Blue Chip' by definition does not mean guaranteed returns. It simply means high priced or high value.

I couldn't really agreeable to your definition, hence, browse through the dictionary.com, "bluechip" is defined as "having outstanding or exemplary qualities within a specified category; leading", nothing related to price/value.

Thanks.

Prana, it's always okay to agree to disagree.

Here are some sources I've used since my college days.

According to it, bluechip originally refers to highest denomination of casino chips and was later on widely accepted on Wall St. as high priced and these days, as high value stocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_chip
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bluechip.asp

And the closest non-value/price related context I came across is by Cambridge Dictionary: "A blue-chip company or investment is one that can be trusted and is not likely to fail."

So, the term used, again, is easily justifiable by the user. "investment....that can be trusted and is not likely to fail."

Still the term "return" is not stated there. Not to mention "promising/guaranteed returns".
To put it bluntly, it's a thinking in error to assume guaranteed return from the term bluechip alone.

I wish I am the guru in properties. But nevertheless, there are quite a few experts that I've noticed from this site's forum. Perhaps they can share a little of their views, whether it's professional or personal, and enlighten us all a little.

One annoying thing I noticed from this forum is it sometimes publishes our posting twice (automatically) making a reply look so darn long. I wonder if the forum moderator realized it?!

Good one, Edward, I'm equally annoyed by the repeated posts in my previous comment too. It "seemed" like that I was doing this intentionally. Hope that the moderator is aware that we are here breathing through properties.


You are absolutely right if there's nothing about "returns" being mentioned/quoted in any of the definition of "bluechip".

Now comes the queries,

1.The development that "can be trusted and not likely to fail" , how can the developer of this mixed commercial development "can be trusted and not likely to fail"? Though the developer comes with 10 years properties development experience, however, bearing in mind that THIS IS THEIR MAIDEN PROJECT for COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, without any track records in commercial development,it's truly hard to convince me ( well, maybe others also )to TRUST them, trust is mutual.

2. Besides, seeing from the investors' point of view, if the development is NOT LIKE TO FAIL, what will be their expectation? Simply as long as the developer can complete the project by putting the bricks and concretes together? Well, I doubt. Then majority of the developments should be considered BLUECHIP, as majority had successfully delivered their work by issuance of CF ( some failed though ). As this developer is putting it as their major tagline for the project, then what's so special about this ONLY BLUECHIP INVESTMENT? And definitely, they are not the ONLY one if BLUECHIP means "not likely to fail", if they use the word "ONLY", it's still misleading.

3. Last but not least, it's the developer to clarify the actual definition of their major tagline if their intention is not to mislead or confuse the potential investors and not for us to make wild guess here. Anyway, I'd got the newspaper printout of China Press STATED CLEARLY THEY HAD FULLY SOLD THEIR PHASE 1, will email this to the PROPERTY INSPECTOR ( www. c180-bluecheap.blogspot.com ) as I believe that it's not good to be published here cause the developer os one of the advertisers, I don't want to be kicked out from the forum as I truly falling in love with this great property portal for this reason.

I can understand the reason investors are getting pissed when seeing their hard-earned money burnt into ashes in a glimpse.

Developers, do wake up. Properties development is a karma business, what goes around comes around, you won't want to lose your second-time buyer. It's the oppprunity cost involved, though not in your book value, but in ours.

Namaste.

The only thing I disagree with is the use of the word "ONLY".
Which I think is a valid point of criticism. It's somewhat insulting to other developers with project(s) in Cheras.

I guess our collective action is a more intelligent and constructive use of a forum.
Many forums I've visited are purely gossips and slanders with no constructive criticism or evidences and are damaging to certain organizations' good image. Not to mention it also kills the integrity of the forum if not moderated properly.

coincidentally, this developer has another tagline whch is exactly the identical to one of the commercial space redefinition project at Plaza Glomac, Kelana Jaya.

The place is re-branded and re-positioned as THE FIRST LIFE+style HUB IN THE REGION, and this developer of Cheras South is naming themselves THE ONLY LIFE+style HUB IN KL SOUTH, as the new Plaza Glomac will be relaunched and open its door on August 2009, in the other hand, the developer of Cheras South only scheduled to have the Phase 1 ready by end of 2010, then, how could it be the FIRST a year later? To me, this is a very important criteria as FIRST is not a superlative adjective, you can't take away the FIRST but you can easily defeat others by BIGGEST, TALLEST, CHEAPEST, what will the developer says about this issue? Another unexpected coincident?

The issue here is, how likely is this development not going to be the next abandoned project? What can the developer do to assure the project will be handed over on time and in the future proud to be the ONLY BLUECHIP property in KL South? If they named themselves bluechip, they must be fully confident to their new born baby, why not a personal guarantee from the chairman or directors? Though this never happened in the past. I strongly urge the developer to come out and clarify this issue as in Chinese proverb, ”the little ignite flame could burn the thorough grassland“KkïåΟ 

Anyway, the relevant potential investors who felt cheated and misled had decided to make the China Press issue public after I emailed her the advertisement. She will be going to Ministry of Trade Affairs to lodge a report so as the relevant authority will investigate this properly.

Gossip and rumors sound stupid to me and it won't kill, simply the truth will prevail.

The name of their project is very interesting, when talk about the total degree of a round shape divided by two,it just equals to half of the value, I see that as a piece of mirror, “the reflection of life".

I am here just to clarify a few issues.
1st of all, i want to tell you who is this Prana, Prana actually was the marketing communication agency for C180 project but due to their poor service, the developer has terminated them. The developer even plan to bring their infringement allegation to court if prana failed to retract the allegation & give them public apology.
For your information, this Prana agency is actually run by the infamous owner of Yoga Z, this gay has conned away thousands of the club members hard-earned money and always has problems with all his business associates. They will promise anything under the sky but failed to deliver & the worst thing is, they will deny & blame others for its own fault.
What a coincident with the same tagline with re-branding of Plaza Glomac & c180, hahaha, of course, this joker was selling the same idea to both. I shall warn all plaza glomac owners, be more careful of this prana people.
If i'm not mistaken chia lanhwa, you r from prana also. In this forum subject, only Edward Chen is general user, the rest are trying ignite flame & create rumors.For China Press write up on 31/10/2008, the developer claimed 70% sold & not what has been mentioned by chia, 100% sold. For fact, pls log in to www.c180.com.my for the write up. Chia, if you have balls, prove to the developer who are the potential investors misled by their China Press write-up & prove to them there are 100 units unsold in their Kiara project. Don't just know how to bullshit here & try to misled other genuine forumers.
Prana & gang, do wake up. Fault allegations is not only a karma business only but also can be sued in court. I will not waste my time to write in this subject again & I urge you to spend more time to concentrate on your own business rather than wasting time blowing water here!

Wow..... this I really didn't see coming.

I'm glad there's some form of clarification now.

Now investors/buyers can have a much clearer picture about C180. Readers should be much more careful when hearing bad news in forums about developers as they are mostly untrue. Simply because folks who have millions at stake in developing a project are most certainly not so dumb as to do something that would jeopardize their long-term survival. They can't be THAT stupid to be in this business. It just doesn't make sense to me. Agree?

Mr. Wong,
you can be rest assured that actions will be taken against Myth-te-ra-land, the hopeless developer in town, there are few highlights that you brought up that pleased some and that irritated some, here it goes:-
1. You are not getting anywhere wrong about me and PRana, however, i don;'t work for PRana and I don't need to ruin Myth-te-ra-land, a small player in the market. Public apology? haha, i shall inform PRana people to welcome for that, see who's gonna apologize to who in the near future. You owe me one apology too, Wong.
2. PRana is run by infamous owner of Yoga Z? haha...biggest joke in the world by the helpless joker. Do a simple SSM search and see who's the boss, Wong, you maybe too old to do so but definitely your company secretary can help you on this issue. Anyway, i won't argue with you on this stupid issue as only dumb and dumber will argue on this, your fellow supporter in this blog might do so.I would let PRAna people make their own clarification about this by themselves, but remember, if PRana is not run by the person you mentioned, you better look up to the sky, kneel down and apologize to the guardian of yoga so that you can be forgiven.
Myth-te-raLand was thinking of taking away all the info from PRana people and not to pay, they have been doing this to many suppliers, don't you know that, PRana chased their manager Eddie and their ore personnel Carmen for payment for more than 2 months but they keep on delaying and finding excuse to avoid payment, you can sit back and pay more attention for the next few days that all the evidence, invoices, emails between Carmen and PRana people will be blogllisted clearly, haha, that's the showtime to knock on the head of liars!
Hey, every registered user is general users here, don't only acknowledge those who sing the same tune as you,i can doubt that Edward Chen is not a general user but i never do so, practice professionalism, Wong.
Ignite fire? Create Rumours? Haha, why so? what's the basis of the problem and what's the reason PRana needs to create rumours for a small-timer?
We had already submitted all the proofs to the relevant department as we mentioned, you just need to sit back and watch the show soon, didn't the relevant department knock on their door yet? if not, must be very soon.
Another interesting issue, OK, SO THE DEVELOPER MENTIONED THAT THEY HAD SOLD 70% OF C180 ON 31ST AUGUST, THE LATEST ADVERTISEMENT IN NEWSPAPER ON APRIL STILL ONLY SHOW 70%, WHICH MEANS NO TRANSACTION HAS BEEN DONE FOR C180 FOR A GOOD 6 MONTHS FROM NOVEMBER 08 TO APRIL 09??? WOW, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALLED OVERWHELMING RESPONSE? LET'S CALL SPADE A SPADE, LIAR WILL FOREVER BE LIAR!
You might be granted a second chance if you admit your fault, pointing a finger on others merely having another 4 pointing at yourself.
Wong, don't use those rude words/language in this decent blog, let me tell you this, "'if you have balls'" shall only be used to male, not female, are you trying to discriminate female users of this forum? Your wife doesn't have balls, your mom doesn't have balls, and I, myself, Chia Lan Hwa, a female, doesn't have balls too! I'm shame on you and I doubt you have balls!

Mr. Wong,
you can be rest assured that actions will be taken against Myth-te-ra-land, the hopeless developer in town, there are few highlights that you brought up that pleased some and that irritated some, here it goes:-
1. You are not getting anywhere wrong about me and PRana, however, i don;'t work for PRana and I don't need to ruin Myth-te-ra-land, a small player in the market. Public apology? haha, i shall inform PRana people to welcome for that, see who's gonna apologize to who in the near future. You owe me one apology too, Wong.
2. PRana is run by infamous owner of Yoga Z? haha...biggest joke in the world by the helpless joker. Do a simple SSM search and see who's the boss, Wong, you maybe too old to do so but definitely your company secretary can help you on this issue. Anyway, i won't argue with you on this stupid issue as only dumb and dumber will argue on this, your fellow supporter in this blog might do so.I would let PRAna people make their own clarification about this by themselves, but remember, if PRana is not run by the person you mentioned, you better look up to the sky, kneel down and apologize to the guardian of yoga so that you can be forgiven.
Myth-te-raLand was thinking of taking away all the info from PRana people and not to pay, they have been doing this to many suppliers, don't you know that, PRana chased their manager Eddie and their ore personnel Carmen for payment for more than 2 months but they keep on delaying and finding excuse to avoid payment, you can sit back and pay more attention for the next few days that all the evidence, invoices, emails between Carmen and PRana people will be blogllisted clearly, haha, that's the showtime to knock on the head of liars!
Hey, every registered user is general users here, don't only acknowledge those who sing the same tune as you,i can doubt that Edward Chen is not a general user but i never do so, practice professionalism, Wong.
Ignite fire? Create Rumours? Haha, why so? what's the basis of the problem and what's the reason PRana needs to create rumours for a small-timer?
We had already submitted all the proofs to the relevant department as we mentioned, you just need to sit back and watch the show soon, didn't the relevant department knock on their door yet? if not, must be very soon.
Another interesting issue, OK, SO THE DEVELOPER MENTIONED THAT THEY HAD SOLD 70% OF C180 ON 31ST OCTOBER 2008, THE LATEST ADVERTISEMENT IN NEWSPAPER ON APRIL STILL ONLY SHOW 70%, WHICH MEANS NO TRANSACTION HAS BEEN DONE FOR C180 FOR A GOOD 6 MONTHS FROM NOVEMBER 08 TO APRIL 09??? WOW, THAT'S WHAT YOU CALLED OVERWHELMING RESPONSE? LET'S CALL SPADE A SPADE, LIAR WILL FOREVER BE LIAR!
You might be granted a second chance if you admit your fault, pointing a finger on others merely having another 4 pointing at yourself.
Wong, don't use those rude words/language in this decent blog, let me tell you this, "'if you have balls'" shall only be used to male, not female, are you trying to discriminate female users of this forum? Your wife doesn't have balls, your mom doesn't have balls, and I, myself, Chia Lan Hwa, a female, doesn't have balls too! I'm shame on you and I doubt you have balls! AND ANOTHER QUESTION TO THIS PATHETIC DISCRIMINATIVE USER: ARE YOU FROM THE MIDDLE-LAND-OF-NOWHERE?

Well, this is getting a little less interesting.

But I strongly believe that forums participants should state comments in a less damaging way whether it is towards people or any particular company. Please do not abuse a good forum like this and force the forum operators to highly regulate and moderate the freedom of discussion in here.

I think most readers would really appreciate and find participants that provide details and information in a kind manner as respectable and honourable. Sometimes we find abusers destroying the reputation of a good platform for discussions. It does nobody any good when this forum becomes a battleground or war of the words. Take all offensive materials elsewhere or just keep it within oneself.

No abusers please. It's not the purpose for any forum. I hate to see this forum getting shutdown because of abusers.

been long time didn't log on to the forum as we were busy and tied up with new commercial properties development planning in Setapak, another interesting project in hand and we have chosen to move forward, like what Edward mentioned, we leave our case with Mitraland to the judge at high court as we believe in justice, the truth eventually prevails.

In order to reply to one of the forum member, Mr. Wong, we would like to inform you that your malicious allegation is baseless and defaming, kindly mind the facts/ statements you quoted in your comment, we reserve the right for further actions taken.

Last but not least, we would like to declare that C180 is the brainchild of PRana, not Mitraland. No further comments/replies to this comment is needed. Thanks.

Never buy off the web. The web is only a reference point to find likely properties.
The brochures and websites are excellent, but that's the designer's job.
You must personally visit each property before parting with your {hard earned)money
Good Luck

yes, it's truly hard for kind conscience designer to listen to what the clients want, especially those developer who wants to sell a one dollar merchandise for 10 dollars, where they still thinking of making extra by squeezing the cost to be lower than even 10cents, hence, you could imagine what's the outcome of a merchandise that cost 10cents but selling at 10 dollars.

This deteriorated approach of developer's work will bring them to the end even faster, particularly the newbies in commercial development like this one said above. I believe that the developer having hard time right now to get anchor tenants in at this moment as their asking rate is RM 8/sq.ft for a 11,000sq.ft leasing proposal to one of the leading fashion players in town, this has proven how shallow and new the developer is as they don't even comprehend the basic rule of "pull-and-push" factor in retail space leasing.

In addition, the developer had tarnished the most important relationship with their PR and Brand agency which are actively involved in so many up-and-coming projects, the negative comments from the consultant can easily hold back all the potential tenants, don't believe? try it out.

Simply putting those potential tenants as "confirmed tenants" will only worsen the situation as the developer is new to this, may not know that the players all know each other too well to see them playing the same old tricks, and last but not least, it's quite predictable that the completed work won't be anything better than currently Damas, half-past-six and half-hearted, bearing in mind that the developer has ambitiously planning to have even a business class HIP hotel, water theme park and international corporate headquarters in a location that seemed like middle-of-nowhere, cyberjaya, even with the strong support from the government, couldn't even show the momentum of the end result, do you think the said above property could make it happen? Well, there's definitely myth in the world and I believe in legend, the developer shall take this opportunity of the coming CNY to pray more for the very very slim chances to succeed. Good luck.

wow........